109 Comments
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Madeline's avatar

I do not hate you! I do not use AI in my writing, but I do use it at work. I find it’s not useful at the things I want (humblebrag).

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

look at this robot humblebragging over here my lord

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Talia Barnes's avatar

This is part of the reason why I don’t want to open the door to using AI at all. While it can be useful for brainstorming, that can too easily bleed into letting it take the wheel, and at that point, why even do the thing? The process of writing or making art matters just as much to me as the end-result. The frustration, the writer’s block, the clunky sentences that could have been better aren’t bugs, they’re features, and working through them makes me a more thoughtful writer and person. I think I’d also destroy myself with guilt if someone loved a line of “mine” that was actually written by a ChatBot.

I hope you don’t read this as an attack on you for using AI: I honestly think it’s useful to experiment with, if for no other reason than to understand how it works, what its limitations are, and what the implications of letting it into your process would be. And there is SOME agency/authenticity in the fact that you chose to include the AI-generated elements that you did. It’s also admirable of you to admit to using it. I’m sure so many people are and just aren’t saying so.

At the end of the day, the whole thing just inclines me to spend less time online: Even if AI can construct compelling sentences, a deeper part of me wants most often to connect directly with human beings and their human-generated thoughts, flaws and all, and in-person scenarios are the only place where that’s guaranteed.

With that said, thank you for sharing your perspective (and for reading my TED Talk)

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Olivia Rafferty ✨'s avatar

"The frustration, the writer’s block, the clunky sentences that could have been better aren’t bugs, they’re features" ooo i like this perspective

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Talia Barnes's avatar

Thanks! 😊

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

i loved this so much thank you Talia

also plz don't leave the internet

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Talia Barnes's avatar

Aw thank you! And I will almost certainly stay on the internet (for better and worse lol)

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Debbie Weil's avatar

Alex, as usual, you're inside my head, asking all the right questions about using AI. How and whether to use AI as a writer is a very nuanced, slippery slope, because it requires a lot of editorial judgment. I don't mind your AI-assisted ending because you are BOTH/AND (aka Both Are True) the WRITER AND THE EDITOR!! Editor Alex recognized a bit from AI that was just right so Writer Alex used it. How is that so different from deciding to incorporate a suggestion from Substack Whisperer Erin Shetron??

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

I thought so much about Erin and Maddie and other editors - something about it feels different! Idk what but something. Maybe bc they’re human lol

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Madeline's avatar

Prove it I’m not human

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

shit

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Debbie Weil's avatar

I think it's complicated (how and whether to use AI) but commenters who say they "don't like AI" and/or "won't read your newsletter" if you're using it, are (in my humble opinion) naive and judgmental. The AI train has left the station... if that's the right metaphor.

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Charlotte Stephens's avatar

I'm surprised by the "I won't be reading anymore" comments - if the whole newsletter had been ai then fair enough, but if it was just editing tweaks I don't understand the reasons for jumping ship 🚢

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Jacqui Shine's avatar

debbie, you don’t know me, so you don’t know if i’m “naive and judgmental.” but your dismissal suggests you’re at minimum incurious.

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Debbie Weil's avatar

Good point. So tell us why you're not going to read BAT any more; asking out of curiousity!

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Olivia Rafferty ✨'s avatar

1. Are you using AI in your writing?

Not in my writing for like Substack, I think. I have gotten it to help me structure my artist bio, i feel like I can use it to like, go over a draft or something but tbh I don't trust ChatGPT not to be as cringey as fuck lmao. I don't use AI much at all but I feel it is good for 'sorting out' thoughts and making lists. How is Claude?

2. How do you feel about it?

AI is super interesting and incredible but also I just always have a 'uhhh but what about the planet' in the back of my head. I also think that it's def gonna have built-in biases which are bad. CASE AND POINT: I got blocked from making a purchase at a DIY store because my bank's AI programme thought that this was an 'unusual' purchase for me. HELLO???? MISOGYNY????? All robots are not feminists until proven otherwise

3. I felt very compelled to comment on this piece because i anticipate there may be some HATERZZZ in the comments. the AI hatred is strong on this platform so honestly kudos for having the balls to come out with your AI truth

4. Are you mad at me for using AI in my writing?

I trust that you would only use it in a way which didn't suck, you know? So no, I'm not mad

5. Do you hate me now?

I could never hate u alex

6. I wish that AI was more ethical. like, i wish that it wasn't bad for the planet and i wish that people didn't just churn out slop with it (like thumbnails for their substacks or cheap books on amazon or greetings cards pictures). i wish that more people used it like certain people on instagram do where they just make very very unique and fantastical pictures. i hope that as we move ahead with the technology it uses less energy and becomes a force for good. you know?

7. What in the almighty hell is happening?

GIRL I DONT KNOW

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

i love all of this AND agree AND what struck me most was this part

" i wish that people didn't just churn out slop with it (like thumbnails for their substacks or cheap books on amazon or greetings cards pictures). i wish that more people used it like certain people on instagram do where they just make very very unique and fantastical pictures."

I agree AND also isn't this true of...all creative work, AI and not? Like most stuff is sorta meh or slop or whatever, right? And then there's the good stuff that makes you go whoa. One woman's slop is another woman's whoa, of course and etc, but...yea. I guess the big difference is that using the AI fucks the planet a lot more than just someone at home writing, idk.

anyways thank you for commenting and telling me you dont hate me

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Jacqui Shine's avatar

4. i’m not “mad” about it but i don’t want to read work written by AI and, given the choice, i won’t.

5. no. i am probably not going to read your newsletter anymore, but not because i’m mad?

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Thank you for the honesty and what my psychiatrist will surely say is “great exposure therapy”

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Jacqui Shine's avatar

🤝

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

🧡

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Isabel Cowles Murphy's avatar

I haven't used it yet for fear I'd never, ever stop. Frankly... I have semi-psychotic episodes at night when I start thinking too much about what's coming. Or it's here! Wake up, Neo!! Genuinely considering a typewriter b/c I fear the machine so deeply.

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Charlotte Stephens's avatar

I don't even have an Amazon Alexa, she scares me 😂

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Isabel Cowles Murphy's avatar

My husband tried to get one in 2016 and it was an automatic NO... I'm so scared to be listened to, even though we've all got surveillance devices in our pockets now. But no more, please! The convenience isn't worth it to me.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

honestly the whole Alexa / Siri thing makes me feel like we're gonna be okay? Those things...suck lol, and while there were def people pushing them hard, they ended up sorta fading into the background of life without robbing us of our humanity?

i dont know

I did do some research into how people felt about the typerwriter lol - gonna share more in my next piece hopefully, but yea they were terrified of it

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Charlotte Stephens's avatar

People were terrified of typewriters? Amazing

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Charlotte Stephens's avatar

I mean, it didn’t end well in I, Robot did it?

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Ariane Goodwin's avatar

Oh, for sure... me too!

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Danver Chandler's avatar

Danver is a lady.

Danver was also her dad.

Two names. Two genders.

How rad.

The reframe made Danver think of her dad.

How her dad was tired. How her dad was sad.

What if? What if? Daddy could have seen he was happy...

As a single dad.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Do you think your dad was happy? Did he know it?

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Danver wtf this was so beautiful wow

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Michael Estrin's avatar

Honestly, dude, I just don’t care. If the writing is boring, I’m out. If it’s compelling, I’m in. This piece was compelling because it was about YOU grappling with a thing (in this case AI). That’s the secret sauce of all BAT pieces: Alex + grappling. What’s does that sum amount to? No clue. That’s why I read you. To find out.

Personally, I think writers in this moment are spending way too much time churning out predictable takes on AI. Either it’s bad because it’s plagiarism, or it’s bad because it scales crap, or it’s bad because it’s shitty but somehow that shit will bring about the apocalypse. I’m fucking bored to tears just typing this. Why? Because these takes are done to death unoriginal hack trash. And yet, these are human takes, and they just won’t stop.

Hard truth: We produce a lot of crap. A lot. And yet, the consensus seems to be that human crap is worth something while machine crap is worthless (or dangerous). Maybe, just maybe, crap is crap, regardless of its origins. I dunno. But I’m bored to tears with writers writing AI is bad [insert thesis statement here]. Note: I’m equally bored with tech boosters writing AI is good [insert thesis statement here].

One last point. What I really loved about this piece is how you grappled with your own instinct to police yourself. That opens the door to a broader issue of writers policing writers over AI (see the em dash witch hunters running amok on social media). I suppose the tendency to police others is as old as, well, others and police, which is why it’s such a boring look. I read so the writer can tell me something I didn’t know, not so the writer can tell me which faction they side with on the issue of the moment.

Ok, dude, I love you & I love your work and I really don’t give a fuck if you use AI or chisel your words in stone of type Wingdings on an eclectic typewriter, or hire a ghostwriter to write the first draft, or an editor to polish your turds into something readable. I’m here for you and the struggle and the unexpected result.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Michael I love you

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Alicia Kenworthy's avatar

"And yet, these are human takes, and they just won't stop." Touché !

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Ariane Goodwin's avatar

Whoa, Michael! I'm gettin' on your train!

Whoo Whoo....

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Garrett Kincaid's avatar

Alex, your writing is anti-AI by nature. AI grabs the most predictable next word, and you do the exact opposite. I think you’d be doing yourself a disservice by outsourcing any of your writing or editing to AI, especially in the long term.

As a reader, I’d prefer that BAT were an AI-free zone (when it comes to the actual published words), even if it would mean that you published half as many posts. And I say that because I love your writing.

I use AI for research and to get good answers to super specific questions (usually on topics I already know a lot about, so that I can detect bullshit), often about grammar or mechanics. I don’t ever ask AI to draft or edit. And the only reason I don’t is because I value those skills (writing and editing) and want to master them. I see AI-outsourcing as an obstacle to mastery.

Thanks for opening up this discussion!

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Ariane Goodwin's avatar

"I see AI-outsourcing as an obstacle to mastery." Sooooo good!

And, if, as a creator, that's your identity, your life, AI ain't gonna cut it. Even if you start falling down the AI rabbit hole, at some point your CreativeSelf is going to rise up and demand more. If not, well, then I'm imagining your CreativeSelf is being pushed into a very uncomfortable corner where, eventually, cramps will set in and you'll crawl out again.

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Jenthevieve's avatar

Funny, I thought that last essay didn't sound like you. What an interesting conversation to start. I have to admit if you are honest about continuing to use AI I will be less interested but I'm just one person so you should do what you want.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Whoa that’s so crazy!! Wait if you remember and can / want to articulate, what felt different about the last one?

I do find your opinion and feeling that you’d be less interested super interesting tho!! Like if I a lot of BAT felt like that, I’d prob just not use it. I don’t *neeeed* it or anything, it’s just a weird new magic to play with

Anyways thanks for writing and being honest

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Mindy's avatar

Alex, in a sample of two readers, me and Jenthevieve, I just want to note that your decision to use AI does not have me be less interested in your work. I read your stuff because of how it makes me feel. I trust if you stay connected to your soul, even if you do partner with AI on some level, I will feel it and enjoy what drew me in in the first place -- you.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

thank you Mindy that means a lot 🧡

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Ariane Goodwin's avatar

You, Mindy, said the magic words (and one more reason AI can't take over the creative world) "...if you stay connected to your soul." I mean, I love Claude, but there is no soul there, just shadows of human souls on the ai-wall.

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Jenthevieve's avatar

I think the part about the date, as well as the poem at the end were like, oh he's trying something new, a different voice. Very present-tensey? Or? I'm not sure. Anyway I want to make sure you know the part that really resonated with me, and it's ok if this is AI - about Wilder touching you, my kids are also velcro kids and they frequently stack their feet on my legs so we look like a horizontal Jenga when we watch tv.

Unrelated, my daughter (10) is using AI to write a book and it came up with the phrases "charming eyebrows," which she has, and "fragile feet," which she does not have and now we have an inside joke about fragile feet.

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Mindy's avatar

Fragile feet. 😂

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

hahahaah fragile feet is so good. also i love the energy of leaning into the dumb mistakes that AI makes. laughing about those and turning them into an inside joke feels very human to me

velcro kids yessss

the touching thing I've been writing / thinking about for a while (look at me, being defensive, wanting you to know it was ME who came up with that part lol), but yea, its very special.

ur kids sound very cool lol

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Letters From the Lake House's avatar

Is it just me or is it like...not that deep? Or maybe I'm too simplistic in my thinking.

Anyways, I'm a new reader and am loving your writing style. This one was especially fun to read—felt like I was tumbling in a very pleasurable kind of way. "Undergerds (ew)" was hilarious, btw.

I like viewing my interactions with AI as a relationship. Ideally it's a co-creative process. AI learns from you, you learn from AI, you guys swap some ideas and viola—you've created a third thing together. But what do I know?

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Hahahaj I’m so glad you dug the “ew”

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Ariane Goodwin's avatar

Actually, LFLH, I think you've landed on something real here: "Ideally it's a co-creative process. AI learns from you, you learn from AI, you guys swap some ideas and viola—you've created a third thing together."

I'm imagining any creator is going to want to take charge of the creative process before closing up shop. Which means, the back and forth always ends with the human in charge of whatever has happened during an AI exchange.

Does this dull the dark edge of AI technology?

Sadly, humans have never shied away from working the full spectrum of possibility from creativity to destruction and back again, and again. We still know so little from these first, baby-steps of the AI-Human tango. I just know I'd rather dance than sit this one out.

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Sabrina Y. Smith's avatar

Not into A.I use 😒

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Sabrinaaaaa

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Isabella Bruno's avatar

I use AI to think sometimes, even when there's no proof that I've been thinking like a drawing or diagram or essay at the end of it, I know that it's ok to need help. Sometimes I journal, sometimes I use AI. Are both weaknesses? Probably not.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Definitely not! I think where it gets most interesting is when there is an artifact.

But yea, even that is wild like, do I need to also report if I’ve taken any drugs before writing? I know it’s not exactly the same but sorta

Honestly everyone’s responses are making me second guess myself lol what else is new

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Isabella Bruno's avatar

Sounds like Drugs OR AI might be a good essay theme :-)

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Wil A.'s avatar

Reminds me of Mitch Hedberg...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG_8Vxm0Dzs

🙂

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

this sent me deep into a rabbit hole of revisiting the genius that is heberg, thank you for that

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Wil A.'s avatar

Miss him, and his baked potato

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Amber Trimble's avatar

I used AI to summarize this article. Conclusion: straight to jail.

No, but seriously, I don't know if it matters or at what point editing bleeds into robot writing.

SInce AI trains on human writing it's possible you stole those lines from someone else. Probably not.

I tried to rework some jokes on AI and even when it helped with the idea I couldn't post anything that wasn't my original thought and own delivery. It felt too weird.

I mostly use it to check and see if I spelled 'chimichurri' correctly.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Yea it definitely is all about that “feels weird” thing. And staying really attuned to that. Cuz I can quickly stop paying attention to it.

What’s funny is I barely used AI in writing this essay besides some copy editing fix grammar stuff and I feel a lot better about it and more importantly just feel much more alive and myself afterwards??

Also there’s no right way to spell chimichanga

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Denny Doneva's avatar

I used language model for dilemmas over topic that required a lot of research, as a small guide. You should completely draw it from your creative work. I believe people don't feel like wasting time reading, watching and responding to something that no person put the time to create it, didn't put their emotions and their own authentic self into work.

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Wrong Channel's avatar

I think as long as you're picking and choosing it's all good. I use it as an interactive thesaurus, it's super helpful. Give me a word that means this but implies that. I do worry I'm replacing my actual thought processes, but it does the job (my job). I probably would feel a little bit dirty, if it had given me the closing line, but it's still you choosing whether it's good or not, and most of what it guffs out is junk.

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