127 Comments
User's avatar
Madeline's avatar

I feel that it is,,, SUB.

I mostly have always read the newsletters in my email, and just commented here directly. Notes used to be more fun, but now are meh.

I still write here, because 60%+ of my readers just read in their email.

But at the end of the day - our writing will live on, with or without the platform.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

madi got em with the SUB

you bring up a good poitn - maybe we're just the terminally online substack crowd??

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Madeline's avatar

shots FIRED

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Madeline's avatar

but fr, sometimes I get down on myself bc I get like 2 likes and then I realize my email open rate is excellent

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Francesca Bossert's avatar

Right! What is up with that? Do they have sore fingers or what??

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Seth Werkheiser's avatar

Just like every platform, we'll all log into the Substack for the last time one day. I don't think that is tomorrow for me, but it's inevitable. Just like Agent Smith says in The Matrix.

But the beautiful thing here on Substack was that it allowed us to build an email list, which is more than we can say for any of the rotten social media platforms we all spent way too much time on before. I'm forever grateful for that.

I met some wonderful people here, because the Substack yourself included. Maybe some of the people in the comments, maybe some of the people on the Zoom calls that we co-habitate on.

I think we're just moving more into a post-platform era, where we exist between the cracks and show up in:

• Email inboxes

• RSS feeds

• Zoom rooms

• Discord channels

• Private texts

• Voicemails (on occasion)

And I'm absolutely okay with such a fractured, decentralized way of being in touch with the people I give a crap about.

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Olivia Rafferty ✨'s avatar

yes. i set up my RSS feed the other day! it is the way.

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Sean Waters's avatar

🫡

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Amen brother. More voicemail more RSS

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Amanda B. Hinton's avatar

Ugh Substack good/sad/huh/not leaving/i am staying/i know why people are leaving ...

I actually came here to say that I laughed at the quadruple Leave a Comment buttons and decided to follow your fine editorial leadership here ... And here I am, leaving a comment.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

many are saying the 4x leave a comment button move might single handedly save substack

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Amanda B. Hinton's avatar

Maybe it already has, Alex … 🌈

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Charlotte Stephens's avatar

I'm staying, though I am morbidly fascinated by the mass exodus to stuff like Ghost. It reminds me of when people left blogger for Wordpress. Having watched that one play out, I don't currently have any interest in being sucked into a monthly hosting plan, only to lose everything if I decide to shut down my blog on a whim (seen lots of people do it and later regret it. I, however, still have blogs dating back to 2010 on my blogger account, ha.)

Engagement is definitely way down. One thing I've noticed is that when I first joined here in 2023, everyone was super generous with stuff like restacking. You only had to mildly resonate with someone for them to share your post. Now, I can knock out something that people tell me touched their very soul, yet the only person restacking is me. It doesn't really bother me, honestly, but it's interesting.

Saying all that, I wonder when the next Substack will arrive that's "just for the writers" for a few years? If it's free and it doesn't change it's dashboard every damn day, I think I might be in

P.S The new feature of labelling everyone in notes is hateful (i.e. 'paid subscriber' next to someone's name. Yuck.)

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

agreed on all fronts especially on the restacking front - I def do way less of it than I used to because I'm honestly just way less on the platform than I used to be...but maybe we need to be the change etc and just restack the shit out of everything???

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

I also just read way less stuff than I used to on here!!

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Francesca Bossert's avatar

I still read a lot but there is just too much and I can’t find my friends 😂

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Charlotte Stephens's avatar

Me too. Notes just creates so much noise, it's hard to focus on the longer pieces sometimes

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Chen Rafaeli's avatar

"yuck" is the mildest way to put it. so freaking tacky. fully agree

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Jodi Sh. Doff's avatar

I’m with you. I hate the Facebookification of the space. I hate getting LIVE! notications. But I really like a lot of writers I’ve met here, and the opp to reach a wider range than I did w my blog. Also, trying harder and more regularly here. I even enjoy the non-writers who are writing here, watching them develop style and maturity.. but the notes, the endless notes if they were just about what your subject matter is or promoting a new post that would be one thing. But I don’t wanna hello from your Cat. I appreciate the political updates, but this is not where I wanna go for them. I want to write and read and be surrounded by writers and readers, not content producers. By and large I’ve just stopped reading notes.🤷🏼‍♀️

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

same re: stopping reading them but then this happens:

i go on substack to post an essay

see a note

scroll notes

quit out in disgust

go back on substack to post an essay

see a note

scroll notes

quit out in disgust

go back on substack to post an essay

see a note

scroll notes

quit out in disgust

forget what i was gonna write about

scroll notes more

vomit

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Esther Patrizia's avatar

THIS IS THE THING. i am with ya alex. it is not what it used to be. I like finding cool people who write but lately it is coming at the expense of my clarity of mind. on one hand, I tell myself I just need to adapt. because I do want to read good things. so, lately I've resorted to just printing out a whole folder of essays I want to read (that's how I finally finally read your disasters piece thank god) and "being on substack" that way. to post an essay, I have my drafts bookmarked so I don't have to "go to susbtack" - BUT then it still costs so much willpower not to click on the stupid bell and ... see a note. anyway, I wrote about this in my last post too, and it is also one of the reasons I once again haven't published anything since september. flat smile emoji

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

I just wish any platform would actively make it hard to turn on all the annoying things vs making it hard to turn them all off.

Like it shouldn’t be our responsibility to exert will power to not fall prey to the platform

“BuT ItS fReE”

Yes but I’d be happy to pay for it! And so would so many others. It just wouldn’t result in social media 1000x promise of return (which I don’t think will happen here btw, I don’t think that’ll ever happen again with social).

Ads are coming soon I bet and then boom, there goes the dynamite??

Idk.

I do wish there was an alternative we could build on top of Substack. Like a chill layer

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Esther Patrizia's avatar

my first thought upon reading was, yeah, can't we just build a cool alternative? the meta of it all though. once upon a time, substack was the cool alternative. so what if what people who no longer like substack build an alternative and then in a couple years when that's big enough, others will branch off and build another alternative. kinda sounds like cancer now that I'm writing it down. or a populist party in germany. anyway. my partner has already nudged me multiple times about wanting to make substack dopamine-hacking free for me (and anyone else who is overwhelmed by notes and the stupid bell). maybe it's time? idk

or we just all move to write.as, where all there is to do is write and maybe comment if those are enabled. i was so close to moving everything there at the beginning of the year.

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Mansi's avatar

Left for the most part. Here only because you show up in my inbox and I read everything you send (and I'll continue doing that no matter which platform you end up using). Once a BAT-fan, always a BAT-fan!

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

MANSI I MISS YOU !!!

will you plz come to a batwrite/hang one of these days just even to say hi?? Also I know I need to come to more of Seth's SMECs too and I WILL SETH I WILL

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J just J's avatar

I still like Substack but I don’t watch any videos on here. If someone I subscribe to posts a video I skip past it.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

lol wait but I posted a video in this post

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J just J's avatar

I read the post but did not listen to the video

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Mara's avatar

Haha when you post a video inside a written post, it doesn’t spam the reader’s feed with that horrible (sadly) video player, so you’re all good! The video is part of the words, and you can read and watch/listen at the same time (excellent for ADHDers btw)

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Hahah hell ya

I’m tryna put more weird stuff on YT too maybe I’ll put it here too

https://youtu.be/aoHxqc-DsGQ?si=RlnZVM4WvuAhMaVV

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Mara's avatar

So, TikTok can do up to ten minute videos and your style is perfect for it, for sure! And yes, test it here too!!

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Hahaha ok phew. So is that a nice experience? I sorta wanna do more of it

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Mara's avatar

It’s THE best! What substack was made for 💪🏻

[What people get overwhelmed with is the mixing of the podcast-style posts (you have to choose it as a video to begin with, not written post) on the same list as written posts. So we end up tapping it by mistake entering a UX-void/torture chamber, that is hard to get out of 🥴]

But yours? Your is good, yes please more of that.

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McKinleyRd Creatives's avatar

me too

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Trilety Wade's avatar

You're right, Substack used to be a small town. But now it's like half of it is a Ghost Town (that's where I reside) and the other half is a Celebrity Metropolis (where you reside). And there's no judgment or value for either side, just sort of two adjacent communities in a way! Notes is strange. I get followers on Notes, where I rarely post, and yet not as many on my actual Substack, where I posted weekly. It's interesting to see it grow and morph and evolve! And sexy ass kudos to you for being Number Sixty Nine in humour ;)

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

omg 69 this is big i cannot change anything must remain 69

"Notes is strange. I get followers on Notes, where I rarely post, and yet not as many on my actual Substack, where I posted weekly." - this is the problem right here imo

also it really is wild that you (and others) think that I live over on Rodeo Dr. with the celebs. I'm squarely middle class lol but maybe ppl think I'm a 1%er cuz I got in early? idkkkkk

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Trilety Wade's avatar

True true about middle class! Stay 69, pony boy

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Mike Sowden's avatar

Don't worry, Alex. Wherever you go, I'll always follow you.

Relentlessly.

NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU RUN.

But to address the main topic:

I trust Substack to try to make a profit for itself and its investors, and since that *seems* to currently depends on helping us get paid subscribers. I'm cautiously trusting. But I still back up my list regularly (please, everone, Export your stuff into backups at least once a month!).

I'm a lot more concerned about making sure I don't become boring. That's much more of an existential threat. I know that sounds British, but - there's a lot of great newsletter writers! Competing is evolving and experimenting. If I'm not trying something risky and new, here and there, just to see what happens, I'm not working on future-proofing myself.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Hello 911 yes help this man is evil

I hear you Mike I do. But the question remains: how much of my stock and business do I hitch to the Substack wagon? A year ago I woulda said 75%? Now I say…30%??

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Margaret Anna Alice's avatar

I, too, am an old head here, and I have written many a love letter* to and about Substack over the years.

I also remember the days before Notes, and I lament the subsequent loss of the intimate, highly engaged communities at our individual Stacks. The introduction of followers has sapped countless subscribers from our mailing lists. The Twitterization of Substack has wrecked its elegant originality (original elegance?) and dissipated our ability to reach readers.

I think your analogy about it going from a small town to a gigantic city is spot on, and the reasons you've postulated are compelling.

It used to be an oasis of literate, cultured, thinking folks in a sea of mediocrity. It's still the best platform around, though, so I intend to remain as long as the founders remain committed to defending our freedom of speech and freedom of reach.

*One of many examples: https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/on-fearing-freedomplus-thanking-substack

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Rob Tourtelot's avatar

When I got to college a million years ago, all the older students were like, man, you should've been here LAST YEAR. It was so much more fun, so much better, etc. I kinda felt the same here, like as soon as I showed up, it was a ton of folks saying how good it used to be.

Even in my brief time here, as someone who tries not to do any social, it's now obviously just straight up social media across most of the site and app. It feels like that happened in a blink. I'm really bummed about it.

I wish someone would start a Substack-like platform that's a B-corp, maybe not a non-profit, but much more skewed to the benefit of the writers and readers, something like this small town you speak of (as I arrived only after it was skyscrapers and monorails).

The video's great, btw.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Rob this raises two questions:

Did you arriving onto Substack begin its collapse? Logically this seems to be the only route

Is such a business feasible? How would it work?

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Rob Tourtelot's avatar

1000% likely on the first question. Also suspicious timing with my arrival at college and the school's decline. Lots to consider there.

As for the second, it seems very, very challenging, but maybe possible? User acquisition on both sides would be really hard, of course, but man... I just hear lots of people saying they'd love something like this.

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C.L. Steiner's avatar

Man, I agree 100%. I left Substack because it became social media. I still love the idea of Substack, but I miss the engagement and community. If that B-corp ever happens, I’ll move in next door to you.

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Pamela Leavey's avatar

I've been here since the beginning of Notes. It's not what it used to be. I've been taking some time away for health reasons and just posted a new "newsletter" today.

I'll stick around, because there's people here I like, you included, and I have a healthy readership. Still, as you said, engagement is down. Too many bells and whistles now and it not as cool as it was 2/12 years ago. They - the Substack makers and fixers kind of broke it with all the changes they keep making trying to attract more users. We're just here as one of the little people now.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Like a buncha Oompa Loompas moving engagement around the dopamine factory

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Ken's avatar
2dEdited

I arrived here at Substack in 2019. I subscribed to a publication started by an author I found interesting. I still subscribe.

In early 2023 I started my own Substack and I did get some traction from the original 'Start your own Substack by being pushed out of the airplane, algorithm' (TM). Over the years I've acquired a few subscribers and even more followers. My followers seem to be increasing, but no one seems to care what I write. Evidently when everyone can write as grammatically correctly as an LLM, actual writers are not very compelling.

Speaking of reading, everything I read these days is getting longer and sloggier. I would say sloppier, but that would be insulting to all the LLM using "authors" out there. It appears that real humans who write their own stuff are competing with LLMs by adding more words. I don't need more words. I need better sentences strung together in better ways.

In any event, the arrival of Notes, video and the phone app have changed how readers engage with my publication. I get more page views but I still don't do whatever it is well enough to get people to type their email into a "subscribe" box, even for free. I've thought about going over to another platform while maintaining my current publication, but that feels a little like taking a second lover. Why would I do that? I don't need more complication in my life and maintaining two publications, or even just switching seems like complication.

Finally, I keep reading other Substackers who express similar concerns about the lack of growth. Frankly, I think the internet is pretty saturated, so why would anyone just starting out expect any traction?

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

Great and sad points.

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Debbie Weil's avatar

Alex, love the multiple Comment buttons… your energy is contagious! Here’s a sentence plucked directly out of what I’m publishing tmw on the topic of defining success as a writer. Only for BAT do I do pre-pub previews!

“Publishing on Substack almost every week for the past two-and-a-half years has stirred a different hunger in me… the desire for MORE. More paid subscribers, but also more free subscribers, more recognition, more accolades… “

I’m greedy, and Substack’s algo makes it worse.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

when there is the knowledge of more, of course we want more

this is natural and corrupting and probably not all that bad all at once

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Debbie Weil's avatar

well I do think of myself as pretty corrupt…

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E.L. Zeitgeist's avatar

Before you even mentioned SX/Sundance I was gonna add that it feels like Jackson Hole Wyoming or something where it was all quaint and cozy and affordable (k maybe not the last one), but then the rich (ie ***FAMOUS***) people moved in and suddenly the local SIN workers and police and firefighters have to move / commute from their homes four hours away for their measly paycheck. Or it's like some hole-in-the-wall NW Chicago neighborhood where the boho artists surthrived until the rich (ie ***FAMOUS***) people moved in and gentrified the shit out of it so the artists can no longer afford rent (ie eyeballs/clicks/likes). Cue Mark: We're living in America at the fall of the millennium.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

just wanna say i love surthrived

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

also EL hi how are you?? I hope all is gravy in your neck of the woods

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E.L. Zeitgeist's avatar

It’s all yours, my gift to you!

Aww I’m surthriving myself, thanks for checking in! New house repairs are 2 fast 2 furious right now, but once they calm down, my money is your money!

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Erika Zeitz's avatar

The way I see it— and thanks for telling me to leave a comment so many times… the way I see it, I feel lucky to have found Substack and found some people (writers) I care about. It’s not like other platforms where my family or friends or former colleagues want to share about their lives. Or diss the situations & political stuff they don’t like. If a place is big enough, you can still find a place there. Or here.

No matter where I am online, I have to force myself to STOP WATCHING REELS!!!! I have ADD, for f’s sake!

Okay. Rant over. Keep writing.

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Alex Dobrenko`'s avatar

You’re right. There’s a boatload to be grateful for.

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